true blueberry

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Feed Supplier on France 3. Claas Machinery Distribution

Ok, so we don’t agree on the schedule idea. I mean you could cut that part off since it is secondary to the main idea: improving agricultural simulation.
If cut out “real time” and schedules I have the following ‘wants’ for improvements:

1. making soil moisture the relevant factor instead of just aggregated rainfall.
-Soil moisture would change every day according to weather, “soil properties” (see below, new idea!) and irrigation.
- Soil moisture should have an effect on yield if the field is worked on during too wet conditions.

2. Weed/Pest/Fungi control should not be totally random, preferably implemented as suggested in the main post and dependent on type of crop and weather.
- If growing potatoes, for instance, and weather is humid and warm Fungi infestation will be really strong and fungi would probably have to be treated every SA day to keep it in control while for instance wheat would suffice with one fungi treatment as the ear shoots out in early summer.

3. Soil properties. As the game is now there are three qualities of soil - good/average/poor. Everyone wants good Q since crop Q gets better and maybe yield too (not sure about yield). Why not change this to three types of soils that are better/worse suited to grow different crops instead? Let’s say we have “Clay-rich” soils, “Sand-rich” soils, and one that is neither (average). For most crops a bit more clay is better because it can hold more minerals (nutriments), but not for all. For instance, Potatoes and Wheat are in a way opposites, Potatoes love sandy soils to grow their spuds in while Wheat love a heavy clay with lots of minerals in. So, potatoes grows well on sandy soils but worse on heavier clay soils while wheat grows well on the heavier clay soil while it grows poorly on sandy soils.

In this way every crop would be listed with its favorite soil. If one plant a field with a crop that has that particular soil as favorite the yield would be optimal, while there would be a penalty in yield/quality if the crop would be planted in a soil that is not the favorite. Then there would hopefully be demand for every type of plot instead as it is now the market is just swamped with one or two star small plots.

4. If the above is done then I would also favor that the rules on what crops are allowed to be grown would be removed. I think it is ridiculous that I cannot plant canola or any other restricted crop in my state. Instead every crop should be listed in the rules with the optimum amount of sun that it needs and perhaps it’s resistance to summer drought. Instead of the G, GS, S variations of the crops one make three other variations of each crop. For example we take Wheat:
a. Optimum of 38 days of sun.
b. Optimum of 33 days of sun.
c. Optimum of 43 days of sun.
The farmer can then choose the variety that is best suited for his conditions. One would need to know the average amount of sunny days in the area so that data would have to be available to the farmer.

@blueberry, it is not the same if you do 50 AP on one machine instead of 25 on two. You need to invest in an additional machine, that is, you have an opportunity cost. If overuse is allowed one could with your argument say that all restrictions to AP usage should be removed (except lifetime limit) since the cost per AP is the same. And if you have to invest in two machines instead of one the actual cost for the work will be higher since you had to invest some of your capital in the second machine. You need to discount that factor into the equation. I think there should be hardcore limits to the 96 APs per machine forcing people with huge amounts of land to actually invest in the needed equipment. Then I have no problem if people can group 4 tractors into one “work group” to make the clicking around easier..


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Contract grower for the US server - Message me if you would like to have a supply deal for your livestock!

2. Ill adress that cause there are hundred ways of fighting diseases and implementing that will take alot work and time. For instance you have to take in account that crop rotation is a good way to fight diseases, if going with bean's followed with wheat, potato are 3 different ways of cultivation and all those asspects need to be taken into account cause all those 3 crops will push one disease(weed's, fungi, insect's) back but will allow another one to progress better, so the crop rotation will take a bigger part into diseases infection and disease progression. Second there is ofc weather(sun,moist) have a big part in development in fungi infection's, sporulation and all other progresses, my farm is located in california by the amount of sunny days and the amount of rainy i should have only 1 or 2 treatments and that is ofc to push back weed's or any insects, cause imho 71,5 mm on my 20 ha in 6 monts if i piss every day on it it will have more moist!

Treatment related, i believe we should have atleast 3 types of every pesticide. Weed related there should be a pre-sowing apliable herbicide, a pre-em apliable and a post-em apliable so that you can do what ever you think is the best of you wont go with an post-em treatment before sowing and etc, so that we have the choice to fight the weeds preventive or kurative.
Same with the fungi, 3 fungicides depending on the situation lets say that SA says that you will have an infection at 3rd. July, you log on 3rd july and there is nothing on your wheat field, ok lets treat with an preventive fungicide to lower the chance of an infection, and so on.


I do hope that you got the point what i am trying to explain! But changes would be good, to improve the gameplay and the game aswell!

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He who dares, wins!

“1. making soil ……. on during too wet conditions.”

How do you know its not in there already? the plots are always low on water so maybe all that’s in there. And if its not they can add it without changing the whole game.

“2. Weed/Pest/Fungi …… ear shoots out in early summer.”

How do you know its not based on that now? And in the end isn’t still just the same thing? And they could make you apply more applications without changing the whole game.

“3. Soil properties. As the……….be demand for every type of plot instead as it is now the market is just swamped with one or two star small plots.”

We already have that, when you look in the rules each state/province has different yield rates per crop. That already represents the different soil types. If they would explain how to improve a plot and what adding extra fertilizer does. People would buy low quality and improve it. I don’t care what the quality is I just check the size and what I can plant next season. If you want to get rid of small plots then let people combine plots in the same location together that would remove every plot there is off the market in heavily populated regions.

“4. If t……..”

The limits fit the soil properties right? Someone did post a start before about developing crops , maybe the coops could have GMO’s on the us server.

“it is not the same if you do 50 AP on one machine instead of 25 on two. You need to invest in an additional machine, that is, you have an opportunity cost. If overuse is allowed one could with your argument say that all restrictions to AP usage should be removed (except lifetime limit) since the cost per AP is the same. And if you have to invest in two machines instead of one the actual cost for the work will be higher since you had to invest some of your capital in the second machine. You need to discount that factor into the equation. I think there should be hardcore limits to the 96 APs per machine forcing people with huge amounts of land to actually invest in the needed equipment. Then I have no problem if people can group 4 tractors into one “work group” to make the clicking around easier..”

Here is the simplest idea for you if you do not want people to have large farms then don’t allow people to have large farms. I already have multiples of the machines that are worth buying. The regular harvester is not worth it to buy more than one, The stuff you grow with it is not worth growing. So I already have multiple bean and potato harvesters. I will probably need another sb harvester this year,

So if I need to click on 2 of them and split the ap or use one it is the same 50 ap. When you to the point that you need a lot of stuff money does not matter. All that would do is force the small farmers to use farm works, or rent from simag, And if you want to use that example it costs 161 per ap to rent a bean harvester so if I rent one and use 50 ap it costs 8050 if I rent 2 and use 25 ap each it still costs 8050 to rent them.

Or they could just stop planting stuff and grow chickens they make more money than plots for less work and equipment.

It would also be easier to go over things if you would focus on one item at a time, you were talking about ap’s for a few posts and now you post all kinds of ideas all in one post instead of just finishing the ap idea first.

Something else I just found funny, you have more potatoes than anything else and you started out this post against people planting lots of potatoes.

Here is another idea for you maybe instead of changing the whole game you could have a new use for the end product. Instead of just selling potatoes to simag have something else that they get sold to.

blueberry

Your last post i have raised before somewere. Well part of it anyway.

As i said before to admin about a better way to develop potatoes was bring in more steps which do happen in real life

Destoning, and ridging these critical steps.

Also we just have 1 price for potatoes. 115 for single tonne. So why not have small medium and large of the crops. Which each size a % of the tonne you lift, so 5% is small, 70% medium, 25% is large (this is just a random figure).

With this option we then have 2 options, a new building to sort into there sizes. This can be optional of course you can sell straight off the harvester at a fee. but you receive a better price for having sorted and selling but you have to pay wages/aps so sort.

This then gives the option to use the small for next years seed.

With me saying this the option to grow for seed with them be lifted early, in the field or oversown in the drill to restict the size if the potato.

This could be developed for other crops but a rough idea

Blueberry if it makes sense, what you think


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Feed Supplier on France 3. Claas Machinery Distribution

“Destoning, and ridging these critical steps. “
That’s fine but don’t just add stuff to add more steps just because there is more steps in real life. Go back the fuel example it is the easiest to relate to.

“With this option we then have 2 options, a new building to sort into there sizes. This can be optional of course you can sell straight off the harvester at a fee. but you receive a better price for having sorted and selling but you have to pay wages/aps so sort. “

I was thinking or more than that but that would be fine, again have be more than just some clicks to get more.

“This then gives the option to use the small for next years seed”

According a book I have those would be the wrong ones to keep, you keep the best ones, not just by size. The funny / ironic part is the book was first published in 1935 and lists how to improve your corn and potato crops. But now almost all you can buy in the US is a GMO / “hybrid” since that sounds better than saying its genetically modified and you can not get your own seed.

You can actually read that part of the book here

http://books.google.com/books?id=-sPpuXiMDQgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=five+acres+and+independence&hl=en&ei=vaRdTfq7I8nDgQfj2PTCDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

pages 38 – 40 they are in that link.

Based on that book to grow your own seeds I would suggest this 3 test plots you select any 3 plots and check them as your test plots and they can be changed each season. When you harvest on those plots you can see some rating for the seed or just go by the yield, pick the best plot. Example grow 3 test plots of corn, pick the best yield then next year plant all 3 with that seed again.

Then you would get some slots maybe 8 to store you custom seed in other wise there would be endless amounts of seed on the market. That way you could trade seed to someone but it would take one of their seed slots.

fair point blueberry, must take a read at the book.


I only reffered to the seed potato as there is a fella down here got fed up with the market so he went into seedling potato and makes a healthier profit

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Feed Supplier on France 3. Claas Machinery Distribution

O'boy..

1. How could it be incorporated based on aggregated rainfall? Crops planted in the autumn always have too much water, and crops planted in spring always have to little.. This tells you nothing on soil moisture.

2. Well, I have two potato plots in the same zone, three treatments on one and zero on the other. It is random as most things in this game.

3. No it is not the same. The yield tables in the rules are probably based on some statistics from the USDA from each state. Each state does not only have one type of soil. So the data is in that sense inaccurate. You can try by yourself to go in and look at the maps and add different layers to see where stuff is grown, yields, etc at www.usda.gov. Then you might understand. But it is not that the yield table in the rules represent the soil composition.

4. See above..

5. I never said anything about disliking big farms!??? I'm sorry, but if you don't want to understand economics I don't know what to tell you.. I really cannot see what you are saying here "I already have multiples of the machines that are worth buying. The regular harvester is not worth it to buy more than one, The stuff you grow with it is not worth growing. So I already have multiple bean and potato harvesters."

What's your background? you sound like an asphalt-farmer to me, it makes no sense.

How could this affect the small farmer? Isn't he very unlikely to use up 96 APs in one SA day!?

2nd post:
Have you read the main post?

3rd post:
Have you read the main post? Please read it again... And How is this changing the entire game!? it has only to do with cultivation, which is a minor part. And it is not that revolutionary, it is only incorporating some features of real farming operations.

And I have already suggested that coops should be able to refine good Q harvests to plant seeds for next season. ;)


Robouk: destoning sounds cool but you don't use this method everywhere. if that should be implemented it would have to relate to whether there is stones in the ground or not. Maybe a little marker ojn the plot indicating that if one wants to grow potatoes the plot will have to be destoned first. Sounds easy enough to do. :)

Bluberry: About growing seed potatoes you do as robouk says, you save the smaller ones for that. But you haulm destruct the plants when they are the reight size and then you have to let them sit in the soil for at least 2 week so that the hull matures and can protect the potatoe from the stress of harvesting and next year planting. About GMOs, they are grown exactly the same way.. where would the seed potatoes come from if not from the grown plants?

I think that coops should have the ability to refine good quality crops to seeds for the next season in a factory. That would make sense and farmers would have to sign contracts with the coops to do it. In that way the coops decides on the quantity and the market will not get swamped.

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Contract grower for the US server - Message me if you would like to have a supply deal for your livestock!

Well i reckon it sounds like a ideal! Bit more realistic working a plot in a couple of hours in stead seconds! it would also be good as if you have 3 plots need spraying at the moment you have to come back to the yard each time! why cant you go straight from the last field you sprayed? save aps! We need liquid fertilizer!

“O'boy.. “
Is it that hard for you to try and go over anything or is the only thing that is allowed is to say oh great solanum you have the bestest ideas ever.

“1. …... “
Why does the whole game need to be changed for a change to water levels?

“2. …….

Again no reason to change the whole game for a small change to weeds

“3. …. “

Since you think that only the great solanum can understand those table how about you explain how having the different soils ends up any different in the end than having 3 quaility levels for plots and different yields.

“4. See above.”

We agree on something see above


“you sound like an asphalt-farmer to me,”

What do you use to plant asphalt and what do you harvest it with? I do not see those seeds on the market. How much money does asphalt make is it more than potatoes? More than sugarbeets? I bet asphalt would grow good with out much water. It sounds good to me, can you explain that to me o great solanum.

“How could this affect the small farmer? Isn't he very unlikely to use up 96 APs in one SA day!?”

One of your ideas was that you want everyone to use multiple machines to harvest stuff so how would that not affect a small farmer if they had to buy more machines when they don’t have money to buy more machines?

“but if you don't want to understand economics I don't know what to tell yo”

How about you explain solanecomics to me and explain how that if I make more money from crops that don’t need a regular harvester why would I want to buy more harvesters and plant more crops that make less money.

“Have you read the main post? Please read it again... And How is this changing the entire game!? it has only to do with cultivation, which is a minor part. And it is not that revolutionary, it is only incorporating some features of real farming operations. “

You want to make it like other games where it takes X amount of time to do stuff, how can you have the plots work like that but nothing else. The same equipment is used on plots ,orchards ,livestock , and forests so I know it is to hard for a simpleton like me but maybe the great solanum can explain to me how you can only change it for one of those and not the others. And please use small words that a small child could understand so I can understand it.

In the end all you want is a schedule system and for some reason you don’t want to call it that.

“Well i reckon it sounds like a ideal! Bit more realistic working a plot in a couple of hours in stead seconds!”

I know that solanum thinks me cant understand that but it is just a different way of showing time units in the game, AP’s are 1 hour each so its not a couple of seconds it is 1 hour per ap used. Almost all of the games that make it take X hours to do anything sell items for real money that reduce that time, and then they sell other items that let you queue more than 2 – 3 items at once that is why they are all that way it hooks people into always buying more items.

And in the end all it amounts to is a schedule.

“Bluberry: About growing seed potatoes you do as robouk says, you save the smaller ones for that. But you haulm destruct the plants when they are the reight size and then you have to let them sit in the soil for at least 2 week so that the hull matures and can protect the potatoe from the stress of harvesting and next year planting. “

I listed specific pages from a specific book and how I would put them in the game, Robouk was going to read those 3 pages and then post what he thinks about how it would be.

“.. where would the seed potatoes come from if not from the grown plants? “

That easy seeds come from the same place babies do, storks bring them. the seed stork flies them to the fields, in a seed diaper.

I guess there is some issues on viewing pages in that book depending on where you view it from so here are some excerpts from the book. Again this book is from 1935 but I find some of the items in it interesting.

“if you can start your own corn breeding with ears pick out 50 or 100 of the best you can find in the crib. Be sure they are properly cured specimens of good size, will filled and well rounded at both ends…… critically examine each under a good light in comparison with the others and ruthlessly discard the poorest , the next poorest and so on until 10 are left…… pick 10 to 20 individual kernels from various positions on each ear … perform germination test on each ear with daily notes…. Plant test plot with the best of the 10 … “ then it goes on about taking the best ears from the best plants like only ears from two ear plants, ect…

“with potatoes the method is as simple. Starting with what stock you have pick out the best shaped, good sized (not necessarily the largest), shallowest eyed tubers in much the same way as described from corn ears” then he lists the same thing about test hills with the best and then take the best from each test hill for next year.

Quotes from five acres and independence by MG kains.

so basicly.

3 plots, of 5 h. then lift the crop. pick the best which gives yield uniform shape and lest treatments.

then replant and use those seeds to grow the new crops?

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Feed Supplier on France 3. Claas Machinery Distribution

“so basicly.

3 plots, of 5 h. then lift the crop. pick the best which gives yield uniform shape and lest treatments.

then replant and use those seeds to grow the new crops?”

Basically yes, I am sure Solanum Tuberosum (my guess where the name is from) could fill out a lot more of the details but in the end that is basically it.

The test plots could just be something fixed like that, maybe they could be expanded or not.

The seeds might need some attributes added to them for weeds,pest,water,ect..

You would probably need some kind of processing facility to get the seeds.I have no idea what that would be, but I would guess that solanum does. Could be farmer size and coop size.

ok, we are talking about crops now. But why not have the option to harvest grass seed?


and

why have silage when its worth nothing?

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Feed Supplier on France 3. Claas Machinery Distribution

“why have silage when its worth nothing?”

It is so that hay below 3star does not feel lonely because it is worthless too you can not sell it or even use it as litter.

“ok, we are talking about crops now. But why not have the option to harvest grass seed?”

I would think that the same basic process would work for any type of seed.

Still, this topic has never ONLY been about the "schedule", it has been about a more realistic way of SIMULATING farm work in relation to cultivation.

That incorporates two things; (i) the functioning of the crop program with different parameters, and; (ii) the actual work that will have an effect on different parameters in the cultivation program (the thing that Blueberry call "the schedule").

My main concerns with cultivation are that there is no transparency to what affects the crops in different ways. As a first step I think SA should make the parameters and their impact available to the players so that we could evaluate the effects and then take rational decisions as to what to do.

For instance, the variable with the greatest effect on yield as it is now is "chance", a totally random variable it seems. I know Robouk mentioned some trial with manure where yields were higher without in some circumstances. That indicates that if manure has a possitive effect on yield, the totally random variable still is stronger. When I harvested wheat the last weak I got yields from around 2.2 tons/hc to 3.3 tons/hc (average according to the rules is around 4 tons/hc). Plots were of ** and *** quality but I could see no relation to if *** had a higher yield. Actually, the lowest yield was on a *** field.

The Growth gauge also seems to have no substantial effect on yield. Last year a harvested Sugarbeets with growth values between of 75 and 90%, There was not any correlation between yield and growth. Some fields with around 90% growth only yielded 25 tons/hc, while some with a growth of 75% yielded 35-38 tons/hc. Average yield in the rules is about 38 tons/hc. The random variable seems to be the only variable that has a substantial effect.

I think that is wrong. It should be that the farmer could get the information needed (the different gauges I proposed in the first post) to take decisions as to what work needs to be done so that yield and quality is maintained. In this irrigation is of course a serious part. However, what SA has failed to implement is that some of crops actually receives a lot of its water from the ground water, this is particularly so for sugarbeets and corn for instance. These issues needs to be addressed, preferably sooner than later.


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Contract grower for the US server - Message me if you would like to have a supply deal for your livestock!

The most important thing is to get the cultivation program to a good standard.

My concrete suggestions without changing the entire game:

Setup for the model:

Crop: Potatoes (growing time approximately 40 SA days.)

Variables:

Maturity/growth, This is the accumulated progress of the crop. when/if it reaches 100% that would correspond to the standard yield (the ones that are in the rules) of the state/area that you are in.

Sunshine, crops convert sunlight to chemical energy. To get a good yield the plant must have the required energy to do so. I know that some areas have problems with too much sunshine and that the crops "burn" due to too much sunshine. But here I will not compensate for that, but it could be done later on.

Available water, This is the amount of water available to the plant. It is specific for every crop. Some crops have roots going very deep so they do not depend on rain as much as other crops. All water does not come from heaven..

Weed/Pest/Fungi infestation, Affects the crop in a negative manner if not treated.

Plant available nutriments, If not available is sufficient quantity the crop will suffer.


The example:

If standard growing time is between april and september then average growing time is 40 days then to reach 100 % maturity/growth.
That is the same as that the crop should on average receive 2.5% in growth/maturity every day.

Lets make some rules to the growth equation for potatoes. (I'm not that good in math so if someone is willing to do this more proper please do!)

n= number of days

g= standard growth

G= discounted growth (after growth has been affected be the other variables)

s= sunshine, where s=1 if "sunny/cloudy"; s=1.5 if "sunshine"; s=0.8 if "bright sunshine"; s=0.8 if "rain" or "heavy rain"

w = available water, where w=1 is the standard value when plant has the normal amount of water. This number will be modded by the following factors: Rainfall, ground water, evaporation (sunshine). That is w≤1.

[p, f, e]= pest, fungi, weed; where normal infestation is [p, f, e]=1. If sprayed a bonus is received [p, f, e]=1.2 until the number is modified by the infestation factors such as heat, moisture and wind (for example).

k= nutriments, where k=1 is when plant has all nutriments required. k will decrease if any of the nutriments (K, N, P, Ca, S, Mg) is of insufficient availability. that is k≤1.

So, G for a specific day is:

G= g * s * w * p * f * e * k

ΣG is the growth/maturity of the crop.

Here I'm thinking one might have another variable affecting growth/maturity after the average number of days negatively affecting growth/maturity so that it wount be possible to just sit and wait for the crop to reach 100% if it would take longer than 40 days.

Temperature might also be incorporated somehow (that might already be the case, but I think it is not a main concern).

By these changes the the farmer can follow up on the crops and give the needed treatments/work to have a good crop at the end of the day.

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Contract grower for the US server - Message me if you would like to have a supply deal for your livestock!